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Author
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Topic: Bodybuilding polygraph exams
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ckieso
Member
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posted 01-21-2008 02:48 PM
  
Have any of you done polygraph testing on "All Natural" bodybuilding competitors? Spefically prior to a competitor wanting to compete in an "All Natural" competition. If so what is the standard procedure and what type of CQ's and RQ's would be asked for this type of exam? Would it be similar to a maintenance type exam? Any input would be helpful. Thanks.------------------
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Taylor
Member
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posted 01-21-2008 03:53 PM
I have been contacted two times by body building entities. They usually want a 15 minute specific issue exam about steroid/enhancer use. I have declined both times. I hope your contact doesn't want a chart roller.As for RQ's ask if they have taken any steroids (or other meds that the body building contact would have) during the past however many years/months.... CQ's are easy - any lie question (lie to officials, to cover up, to make self look better, falsifying documents.....use use the time frame before your RQ's. If you have Matte's book there is a huge section on CQ's. Taylor IP: Logged |
ckieso
Member
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posted 01-21-2008 04:07 PM
What do you mean by chart roller? Thanks for the input.IP: Logged |
Taylor
Member
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posted 01-21-2008 07:52 PM
ckieso, Back in the day the term 'chart roller' came about from examiners running 15 minute exams under not ideal circumstances. I looked at your profile and don't know where you are from (you must be okay cuz motor cycles are your interest! yeah baby).... anyway, if you are in a licensing state they usually will put requirements on how you conduct an exam (time, validated technique, certification....). If you belong to APA, AAPP or other notable associations they also have guidelines for how long an examination should last (In Utah the state rule is 90+ minutes per exam unless it is a pre-emp and there is a 60 min requirement) So, the term 'chart roller' was to identify the examiner that runs a 15 minute exam in the back of a van...or something along those lines. Chart rollers give us all a bad name. Chart rollers can be anywhere but they are prominent on body builder and fishing tournaments. So just be careful when those entities contact you. How long have you been an examiner? Where the heck are you from? and...whats the longest road trip you have traveled on that motor cycle? Taylor
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Ted Todd
Member
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posted 01-21-2008 08:37 PM
ckiesco,You should RUN...not walk but RUN away from these types of tests. Taylor is correct, they are looking for a "chart roller" to make them look like they are a clean sport. I have turned them down on several occasions. Many of the tests are done in Las Vegas Nevada where there is a licensing requirement. They have even offered to have the contestants meet me on the California side of the border to do the tests. I have had many law enforcement applicants tell me they have passed a polygraph because they took one for a body building competition which lasted about 15 minutes. They have failed my test and admitted to using steroids. I tell the promoters the same thing. My test takes at least two hours and cost more than a "Happy Meal" at Mickey D's. Ted IP: Logged |
ckieso
Member
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posted 01-21-2008 10:01 PM
Taylor, I live in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. The home state of the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally. My longest trip in one day was on a Fatboy to Denver, CO (650 miles) in 12 hours. My most recent bike was a 2001 Road King Standard. I rode that to Milwaukee for the 100th Anniversary of HD. I also have ridden to Sturgis several times, Minneapolis, Yellowstone National Park, Illinois, etc. I actually had to sell my Road King in 2006 to pay for polygraph school. I have been conducting exams for a little over a year. Anyway I am looking to buy a new bike soon. As far as the Bodybuilding testing, I work part-time at a fitness center and saw a poster for a bodybuilding competition that stated "100% polygraph tested." I was curious as to what that type of testing is all about and if it is legitimate. It sounds as though it isn't. Thank you Taylor and Ted for the advice. I am an associate member of the APA and active member of the AAPP and do follow their standards and guidelines. ------------------
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Taylor
Member
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posted 01-21-2008 10:44 PM
One time I opened the map and saw a place called Moose Jaw Canada. Hell I like Moose so we drove up there came back through Sturgis back to SLC. Every year we do at least one BIG ride 7-10 day trip. Been to sturgis a few times (love the black hills), the CA coast (redwoods are awesome) to name a few. This year in June we are going to LV via extraterrestrial hwy - the Grand Canyons - and then to Roswell and back up through CO to SLC.Back to poly business. Always check the source. Ask what they are looking for.... Then tell them what you will do and don't take the short cuts. If they act like they want a 'chart roller' (body building or any other entity) don't associate yourself with them and like Ted said....run! Good luck in the profession and getting another bike. I have a 2002 Road King Classic (mine) and a 1994 Wide Glide that I let my old man ride....lol IP: Logged |
ckieso
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 08:01 AM
This is a competition in Minnesota where I do not believe there is a licensing law. The facilitator would like each person tested, (approximately 90 to 100 competitors) for use of prohibited supplements. He stated that a 90 minute exam would take quite awhile and all the competitors would not be able to be tested. So he is asking if possibly a 30 minute exam could be conducted effectively so that everyone can be tested and no one falls through the cracks. If an examiner were to do this would it be unethical. I think this guy is legitimate and does want to run an all natural competition. I believe it is his first time organizing the event. Any advice? ------------------
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Taylor
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 09:34 AM
This is what we warned you about. I wouldn't do it. 30 minute exams = chart roller. Plus 100 exams - how many does he want in a day? Even if it isn't a licensing state it doesn't matter ethically. Do you really think you can do a specific examination 'effectively' in 30 minutes? Advice: educate this man and tell him what you can do (don't take short cuts) and he can accept the proper process or decline your services. Taylor IP: Logged |
Ted Todd
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 09:53 AM
ckieso,
If you have to ask if it is unethical, that should be a clue. Either do it right or don't do it at all.It is just like the fishing derby promotors who want the winners tested. How do you test a guy that has been up all night fishing and drinking beer? You don't! Ted IP: Logged |
stat
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 10:47 AM
Statistically, out of 100 bb's, you will incurr errors. The use of chemical performance enhancers is (I imagine) very common and has a high value of deception.
Conversely, fishing tourneys only test the winner(s)---usually 3 exams. The error rates are diminished.
What is to become of your expected 8-10% inconclusives? What is to become of the DI's?
Even if the contest producer agree to your terms of testing (duration and location) which is unlikely, you would need to establish so much education with the layman producer that at the end he would likely see that polygraph testing all of those contestants is theoretically and financially stupid----and you would have engaged in unpaid lecture time just to shoot your $ making prospect in the foot. Although it would be charitable for this dangerous contest producer to be taught just what he is considering by testing 100 muscle heads.Remove the money prospect from your mind, as that is the only real temptaion in such a situation-------100 tests is quite remarkable for a privateer, but think of the error rates and the consequences. BB's can be violent you know, and on another aside, I doubt Complete Equity Markets would be thrilled at the prospect either---as there is probably some fine line insurance weaseldom caveat against such a gig. Who knows? 
[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-24-2008).] IP: Logged |
ckieso
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 05:16 PM
I told him that I would not do the exams unless they meet the standards of the APA. He replied that he has contracted with 2 examiners from Iowa that will do the testing. These examiners are gonna do a 45 minute exam and charge $40 per test. If my research is correct I believe that both of these examiners are members of the APA. Anyway that is what their website states. ------------------
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stat
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 05:27 PM
CK, I for one am proud to be associated with you on this board. Any private examiner will concur that they NEVER regretted turning down a smokey situation for some cash. Welcome to the ethical practice of polygraph Testing, for which you passed your hazing! It's hard enough keeping from being unethical ON ACCIDENT, much less rejecting carnival tests such as the meat-head contest. I for one thank you. I wonder if my friend Rich Kenworth in Demoines (PSCOT Examiner) knows he has such takers in his neck of the corn.[This message has been edited by stat (edited 01-24-2008).] IP: Logged |
Taylor
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 05:31 PM
So do you know the examiners names? APA may be interested in the info.IP: Logged |
Barry C
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 05:42 PM
There isn't a lick of research to support a 45 minute test. That's fraud. I'd tell the organization that a 45 minute test is a sham and an attempt to fleece them out of a lot of money.IP: Logged |
ckieso
Member
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posted 01-24-2008 06:46 PM
I have a good idea as to who the examiners are. However, I am not for sure. But I know there is a (Jim Hammes) in Iowa that on his website states he is a member of the APA and conducts exams for fishing tournaments and bodybuilding competitions. So I think it may be him. Once again I am not sure if he is testing for this event, but he openly states on his site that he does that type of testing. I will stick to conducting only exams that meet the standards of the APA and AAPP. IP: Logged |
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